Is Cam Newton Mediocre to Below-Average?

JohnShadows · Apr 27, 2015

Oldschool739 said:
That needs to change, teams that won 9 and 10 games didn't get in, just because that division was atrocious last year and 7 wins and a tie won the division....
....
A 7 win team is not competition for a good team, plain and simple, and you saw that last yr....

I don't agree, think it's fine the way it is. The fact that I mentioned earlier (the losing record teams have all won) points to other factors in play (may be a hot team).

And they beat a team with a scrub at qb but got stomped when they met a good team the very next game...

The original purpose for my bringing up the win was to counter what GenJac said (you'll notice he thumbed-up the post in recognition). He's got a playoff win - same number as Tony Romo, I believe. And all the (CAR) games with the Seabirds had been tight up until then - really, panthers were still in the game when cam threw that pick 6 in the red zone.

I like Ron and some of those players but we're talking about your qb, and his ability to win or not...

I would remind you that Newton has made 2 pro bowls, and the team went 12-4 the previous year, won the NFC South (for the 1st of 2 in a row, something that had never been done), and led some 4th quarter drives (including against the Patriots) for the win. He's taken it on his back and won some big games. To be fair, Cam came into last season injured, and was banged up most of the season. But I've also pointed out his drawbacks.

JohnShadows · Apr 27, 2015

Uhsplit said:
My opinion will disagree with your opinion on this. Without trying to sound too much like a homer, RW's Seahawks are 4-0 against Cam's Panther's. 3-0 in Carolina. Yes, Seattle has a better running game and a little better D but Carolina's D is no slouch.
Cam cannot create as well as Russell and he does not have quite the escape ability that RW has. Accuracy is another advantage in Russell's favor. RW beats Cam in Leadership quality, maturity, and lacks any pompous attitude.
Cam is a larger, more powerful athlete and once in the grasp is harder-by far- to bring down.
RW has the "IT" factor. Cam does not.
RW>CN by a big margin.

They've put up similar passing numbers (raw, RW has better ratings), since RW has been in the league. They've both benefited from having excellent defenses to cover for lulls in production. Cam is a more physical runner - he can put his head down and drive the pile near the 1st down marker or goal line. And he's willing to do so. Wilson is the best I've ever seen throwing on the run. But on the open market, I think they'd be about equal in value.

Oldschool739 · Apr 27, 2015

Uhsplit said:
My opinion will disagree with your opinion on this. Without trying to sound too much like a homer, RW's Seahawks are 4-0 against Cam's Panther's. 3-0 in Carolina. Yes, Seattle has a better running game and a little better D but Carolina's D is no slouch.
Cam cannot create as well as Russell and he does not have quite the escape ability that RW has. Accuracy is another advantage in Russell's favor. RW beats Cam in Leadership quality, maturity, and lacks any pompous attitude.
Cam is a larger, more powerful athlete and once in the grasp is harder-by far- to bring down.
RW has the "IT" factor. Cam does not.
RW>CN by a big margin.

Totally agree except that Cam had Steve Smith and the young gun Kelvin Benjamin, I'd say that's a pretty good tandem there myself....There's no excuses in football, either you are a consistent winner or not, all the elite qb's win without super stars at every position..... :nod:

Oldschool739 · Apr 27, 2015

GoldenSpur said:
I don't agree, think it's fine the way it is. The fact that I mentioned earlier (the losing record teams have all won) points to other factors in play (may be a hot team).

The original purpose for my bringing up the win was to counter what GenJac said (you'll notice he thumbed-up the post in recognition). He's got a playoff win - same number as Tony Romo, I believe. And all the (CAR) games with the Seabirds had been tight up until then - really, panthers were still in the game when cam threw that pick 6 in the red zone.

I would remind you that Newton has made 2 pro bowls, and the team went 12-4 the previous year, won the NFC South (for the 1st of 2 in a row, something that had never been done), and led some 4th quarter drives (including against the Patriots) for the win. He's taken it on his back and won some big games. To be fair, Cam came into last season injured, and was banged up most of the season. But I've also pointed out his drawbacks.

He's went 7 wins, 3 of 4 years....2011-2012-2014...C'mon man, you know that ain't good !!!

boogiewithstu2007 · Apr 27, 2015

I thought he played a pretty good game overall in the playoffs at the Clink .... That was actually the best I've seen of him.. He made the one critical pick 6 mistake at the end of the game, but overall he played well and gave his team a chance...

JohnShadows · Apr 27, 2015

Oldschool739 said:
He's went 7 wins, 3 of 4 years....2011-2012-2014...C'mon man, you know that ain't good !!!

LMFAO!

You don't really

seem to have absorbed

the points made too well:

Oldschool739 · Apr 27, 2015

GoldenSpur said:
LMFAO! You don't really seem to have absorbed the points made too well:

You need to quit smokin' the kitty litter, son !!...Your qb is average to slightly above at inconsistent times...
I guess you're laughing to keep from crying or else 2 pro bowls and 1 playoff win in 4 years is elite to you....
If so, then you are a special kind of stupid, here's your trophy, Champ....

JohnShadows · Apr 27, 2015

^^^ Ah, geez. Too easy. Again, I've pointed out C newton's upside/downside. You guys stick with the expert, here.

Next! Grownups only, lol.

ATL96Steeler · Apr 28, 2015

Uhsplit said:
My opinion will disagree with your opinion on this. Without trying to sound too much like a homer, RW's Seahawks are 4-0 against Cam's Panther's. 3-0 in Carolina. Yes, Seattle has a better running game and a little better D but Carolina's D is no slouch.
Cam cannot create as well as Russell and he does not have quite the escape ability that RW has. Accuracy is another advantage in Russell's favor. RW beats Cam in Leadership quality, maturity, and lacks any pompous attitude.
Cam is a larger, more powerful athlete and once in the grasp is harder-by far- to bring down.
RW has the "IT" factor. Cam does not.
RW>CN by a big margin.

For some of the reasons you just mentioned...I really like RW and I can't say that I like CN that much...so for me to say CN is better, it's more about the talent level...the one intangible that clearly favors RW is leadership.

I think RW benefits from having a better team around him...and I've said many times...because of this RW is not the be all, cure all for the Hawks...whereas if Cam doesn't play well...the Panthers are almost certain to lose the game.

ATL96Steeler · Apr 28, 2015

Oldschool739 said:
Totally agree except that Cam had Steve Smith and the young gun Kelvin Benjamin, I'd say that's a pretty good tandem there myself....There's no excuses in football, either you are a consistent winner or not, all the elite qb's win without super stars at every position.....

Cam had Steve Smith, and the TE Olsen...Benjamin and Smith did not play together if I remember correctly. CAR never put a decent #2 with Smith...they chose to pay 2 RBs top shelf money instead.

I'm not saying Cam is elite, and I'm not saying he's a consistent winner, but those that say he's garbage and not worth an extension have bought too much into the negative hype imo.

eaglesnut · Apr 28, 2015

Wilson has the easiest job in the league. Not really a fair comparison to Cam.

ATL96Steeler · Apr 28, 2015

eaglesnut said:
Wilson has the easiest job in the league. Not really a fair comparison to Cam.

He does, but he still has to make plays and he does...my point is not to tear down RW...back to back SB appearances speak loudly enough for him in whatever capacity they want him to perform.

I noted that I thought Cam was a better talent, and I still think he is even though he may never accomplish what RW has an NFL QB...football imo is the ultimate team sport and you

ATL96Steeler · Apr 28, 2015

hit post before I was done...meant to say...and you can have good play @ the QB position and not win a SB and you can have so so play @ the QB position and win a SB

eaglesnut · Apr 28, 2015

ATL96Steeler said:
He does, but he still has to make plays and he does...my point is not to tear down RW...back to back SB appearances speak loudly enough for him in whatever capacity they want him to perform.

He does makes some plays, but really any QB does. There's not that many starting QBs in the league that would have kept them out of it.

ATL96Steeler · Apr 28, 2015

eaglesnut said:
He does makes some plays, but really any QB does. There's not that many starting QBs in the league that would have kept them out of it.

Yeah, every QB does make plays, but RW not only makes plays, but aside from his pick to seal it for NE...he rarely makes the game altering mistake and that might be his biggest quality. I'm not one of these guys that think ANY QB would've done the same thing with SEA, but I also recognize that RW is not asked to carry the team week in week out.

Wamu · Apr 28, 2015

Wilson is 36-12 as a starter. His interceptions have dropped every year he's been in the league, from 10 to 9 to 7. And currently he's thrown 72 TD's to only 26 int's. He's 6-2 in the playoffs. Pretty damn good #'s. Really don't understand the hate for this fella right now. All the guy does is win.

eaglesnut · Apr 28, 2015

Wamu said:
Wilson is 36-12 as a starter. His interceptions have dropped every year he's been in the league, from 10 to 9 to 7. And currently he's thrown 72 TD's to only 26 int's. He's 6-2 in the playoffs. Pretty damn good #'s. Really don't understand the hate for this fella right now. All the guy does is win.

Yeah we know that already. Easiest job in the league we said.

Wamu · Apr 28, 2015

eaglesnut said:
Yeah we know that already. Easiest job in the league we said.

I have only seen you say he's got the easiest job in the league, which I think is 1000% bullshit. And that's your reason for disliking him, because he wins? Okay...whatever.

night · Apr 28, 2015

He's average. Once his athleticism declines I think his days in the league are numbered. I just don't see him as a good passer.

ATL96Steeler · Apr 28, 2015

night said:
He's average. Once his athleticism declines I think his days in the league are numbered. I just don't see him as a good passer.

I tend to agree that Cam is pretty much a middle of the road (average) QB. Passer...just a tad under 60% completion rate for his career...not great, not terrible.

Is Cam Newton Mediocre to Below-Average?

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